Author Topic: Short field procedure model M35  (Read 4126 times)

Warren Merrell

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Short field procedure model M35
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2010, 02:40:24 PM »
Thanks everybody for the answers.

They were all great help.

I will practice with different configurations.

Thanks

Warren W. Merrell

P.S. My plane does not have marks on the flaps is the an easy way to mark them.

Warren Merrell

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Short field procedure model M35
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2010, 02:42:29 PM »
Jack

My Email is wwmerrell@yahoo.com

Thanks

Warren W. Merrell

Tom Pelz

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Short field procedure model M35
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2010, 02:27:14 AM »
Warren,

On my K35, I almost never use partial flaps on take off.

However, should I want to get off the ground quickly, from a short hard surfaced runway, I lower my flaps for a four second count, then put the flap switch in neutral.

Normally when flying my K35, I apply back pressure at 70 MPH indicated and it will fly off at 80 MPH indicated.

With a four second flap extension AND an additional nose up trim of 3 degrees, I apply a bit of back pressure at 55-60 MPH indicated and it will fly off about 60 - 65 MPH indicated.

Note, should something go wrong (power loss) get the nose down quickly because you will find yourself suddenly in at power off stall in this condition.

As others have said, do not be in a hurry to get the gear or flaps up.  After getting airborne, lower the nose a bit, adjust the trim if necessary, and get some airspeed, then some altitude.  Then you can raise the flaps.  I prefer to raise the flaps first, then the gear.  When the inboard gear doors open, it creates a lot of drag.

As others have said, give yourself a lot of help and do this with a lightly loaded airplane.

I have flown my K35 out of an 1800 foot long grass strip without problems on multiple occasions.  But I was always about 300 pounds below max gross weight.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Justin Graff

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Short field procedure model M35
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2010, 06:41:15 AM »
I don't think my N35 without flap pre-select mentions what the full flap deflection is, ie. 30 or 40 degrees, and I have forgotten.  Can someone remind me?  I usually just use half and full flaps.  For instrument approaches I usually just use full flaps per Ecklbar's recommendations for the non-preselect Bonanzas.

I have not used flaps for takeoff on the only grass field I go to, Bigg's Aircraft.  Plenty long, but minimizing the takeoff roll is a reasonable reason to use partial flaps.  

My aircraft used to have marks on the left flap to show partial flap settings before it was repainted.

I think just counting (one one-thousand, two-one thousand...) is a reasonable way to get a reproducible flap setting on the non-preselect Bonanzas, without marking the wing.  How many seconds is 10, 15, and 20 degrees of flaps on these airplanes, assuming a recently overhauled flap motor and adequate electrical source?  I can time my airplane and try to measure the angle, just wondering what others are getting.

Tom Pelz

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Short field procedure model M35
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2010, 02:17:17 PM »
Justin, Warren,

I think that if you turn your control wheel to the right, it will lower the left aileron.  If you then lower the flaps to almost equal the left aileron, you should have about 20 degrees of flaps, which is the amount of flaps suggested by the "old or original" owner's manual for short field take off.

My flaps take 12 seconds to get from up to completely down.  I figure that stopping at four (or five) seconds permits the motor to turn another second or two and end up with about 20 degrees of flap extension.  

Finally, I do not use flaps on landing until I am certain that I have the airport, then I lower full flaps and make the final trim adjustment.

On an instrument approach, I do not lower flaps until I have the runway in sight.  If I break out too close and the runway is long, I just land without use of flaps.  

Tom

Gary D'Antoni

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Short field procedure model M35
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2010, 01:50:18 AM »
Hi Warren,

You will find a thorough discussion of high performance takeoffs for various models in John Eckelbar's Flying the Beech Bonanza.  In his treatment, he compares and contrasts various models executing takeoffs using of 20 degrees of flaps with those same models taking off without flaps.   He even does a comparison of each flight path and how they intersects with the other (with an approximate elevation of intersection).   You should be aware however, that Vy and Vx without flaps extended is not the same as Vx and Vy with 20 degrees of flaps.   John covers these issues as well.   For example, in my V35B with 20 degrees of flaps I will use 72 KIAS.

Get John's book and read the chapter on high performance climbs before you execute the manuever.   I believe  you will be well impressed with the results with your liftoff and subsequent climbout performance using 20 degrees of flaps.   I would also recommend that you retract gear once you have established a positive rate of climb (out of ground effect) and then retract flaps in increments only after you have cleared obstacles in the area.

All the best.

Gary D'Antoni  

Bob Ayers

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Short field procedure model M35
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2010, 12:56:45 PM »
That is why there is only one sticker on the Flap showing 20 degrees of flaps. Use them for Short and soft field. I can tell a HUGE difference verses no flaps. But like any Manuver you must perform it correctly and at the right airspeed. I also agree with waiting to cylce there gear (more drag)

It is a short field manuever. So it should be performed only by focusing on the airspeed indicator and horison. You need to get every foot of altitude in as little amount of time as possible. and to do it correctly and focused. you don;t have time to be putting your head down and trying to find the gear handle to throw up.

Just go practice it and have fun!