Author Topic: TC Climb Power Settings & Performance  (Read 3903 times)

Ron Schmidt

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TC Climb Power Settings & Performance
« on: November 26, 2010, 05:38:41 AM »
I fly a 1980 A36TC (EA120). I would like to know what other TC pilots use for power settings during climb out and if your airplanes perform according to POH numbers.

Our POH's state Maximum Continuous Power is 36.0 in. Hg at 2700 rpm Full Rich maintaining 32.5 to 34.2 gph up to critical altitude (approximately 19,000 feet) above which we may expect to start losing manifold pressure and fuel flow.

For some unknown reason (being nice to my engine?) upon reaching at least 1,000' AGL I've always chosen to throttle back to the Cruise Climb power setting of 34.0 in. Hg at 2600 rpm Full Rich maintaining 28 to 31 gph up to critical altitude (approximately 20,000 feet) above which we may expect to start losing manifold pressure and fuel flow.

Even with a new engine I have never gotten this performance. In the Cruise Climb configuration (34.0 in. @ 2600 rpm) manifold pressure and fuel flow starts bleeding off above 11,000'. If I get behind the curve I cannot make it up by advancing the throttle. LOW Auxiliary Fuel boost does no good, I find it takes HIGH and then lean as required.

Lately I've been trying Maximum Continuous Power (36.0 in. @ 2700 rpm) all the way up (I normally fly between 16,000' and 19,000'). It seems to work better but I still don't get anywhere close to 19,000' before losing manifold pressure and fuel flow. What is your experience? I'd love to hear from Mike Bush and Janet Lapp if you're out there! ron

Tom Turner

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TC Climb Power Settings & Performance
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 09:41:55 AM »
Hi, Ron:  

I've never had those indications with TSIO-520UB engines.  As you may know, I developed the FlightSafety International A36TC/B36TC pilot training program many years ago, and I still instruct in the type.  

I climb at the recommended cruise climb power setting from the POH (34"/2600 rpm) and approximately 30 gph fuel flow.  I also climb at 130 KIAS for additional cooling and forward visibility.  

The engine should maintain a constant MP to critical altitude, which is about 19,000 feet density altitude.  Any failure to maintain power below this altitude calls for a landing and a thorough check of the engine for leaks.  Although there are a few benign causes for a reduced critical altitude, there are a couple of very nasty ones as well--and trouble is, you can't tell which it is from the pilot's seat.  A friend of mine recently had similar indications in a B36TC and finally found a buldging, two-inch crack in the exhaust manifold.  Imagine a 1600F blowtorch inside your engine compartment.  It was behind a factory flame shield, thankfully, but the shield also made it very difficult to find the crack.

I'd have a mechanic very knowledgeable with the TSIO-520UB engine make a very thorough check for induction and exhaust leaks before further flight, followed up by a check for foreign object damage or oil-restriction damage to the compressor and turbine sides of the turbocharger.  If those checks reveal no "nasty" causes of your reduced critical altitude, then you can look for other causes at a more leisurely pace.  

Nick DeMarco

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TC Climb Power Settings & Performance
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2010, 12:07:18 PM »
Ron,

Please share with us what you found.

Nick

M Pilling

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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2011, 08:07:36 AM »
Ron:

I just acquired a 1981 A36TC (E214)with gami's, intercooler and JPI 700.  It's getting some upgrades done now and then I can't wait to really hit the flying hard. What numbers do you like to use for cruise?  What procedure do you use for LOP?  How about Hot Start Procedure.  I am new to the Bonanza world and look forward to any good suggetions from you experts. Any other suggestions would be greatly apprecited.

Thanks

Mark

Edmonton, Alberta

Tom Turner

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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2011, 10:07:56 AM »
Hi, Mark:

For your advanced planning, BPPP will be holding a Bonanza/Baron pilot training clinic in Spokane, WA June 10-12.  This isn't too far from you, in A36TC terms, and should help you formalize your checkout training in the TC.   

Richard Reeves

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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2011, 07:56:25 PM »
Ron,

I have been flying an A36TC (EA-113) for about 30 years.  I have found the best climb power setting is generally to us 36 in. Hg and 2700 RPM for take off and initial climb to a safe altitude (i.e. whatever you are comfortable with between 400 and 1,000 feet AGL), and then I set the cruise climb setting 34 in. Hg and 2600 RPM.  It is always important to not climb at a lower power setting than 34/2600 as the automatic controller will reduce fuel flows, which could result in overheating the engine, as it relies on high fuel flows for cooling in climb since there are no cowl flaps.  I always transition to the cruise climb airspeed of 120 kts. once I make the power reduction to 34/2600,unless I have a specific reason to use Vy or Vx to facilitate engine cooling.  On a hot day, I may even use a higher climb airspeed like 130 kts. to facilitate engine cooling.

The engine should be able to hold manifold pressure to its critical altitude of 19,000 feet bearing in mind that depending on atmospheric conditions and how your controller is adjusted that may be 34 to 36 in. Hg.  If the engine will not do that you definitely have a maintenance issue; it could be any one of a number of things that have been mentioned (i.e. intake leak, exhaust leak, obstruction, a turbo problem), and I reccomend you get it fixed, as there are very few problems with the turbo-charged engines that I have found to be benign.

As a starting point, I would suspect that your problem is either an exhaust leak or something in the turbo unit as the fact the fuel flow is going down commensurately with the manifold pressure shows the controller is reacting to lower manifold pressure and reducing the fuel flow just as if you had intentionally reduced power, but that is just a guess.

Finally with regard to using Low or High Fuel boost in climb, it is important to know whether or not your airplane has a kit installed that was the subject of a Beech Service Bulletin about 25 years ago.  The A36TC initially had smaller diameter fuel lines and it was a common operating procedure to go from low to high boost in take off and climb at higher density altitudes.  The fuel pump switch had three positions (Off-Low-High/Low), and in the High/Low the pump would automatically switch from Low to High at approx. 25-30 in. Hg  However some pilots failed to realize that when going from low to high boost one needed to immediately lean the mixture; otherwise the engine could flood and fail.  Beech addressed this with the SB and Kit.

Airplanes with the kit have larger fuel lines and the fuel pump switch has the following positions:  Off-Low-High.  It is not recommended under any circumstances to use the High setting in flight unless the mechanical fuel pump fails.  The only other use of the High setting is to prime the engine as part of starting it.

Hopefully this helps.

Rick

John La Selva

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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2011, 03:16:31 AM »
Ron,

I fly a V35TC with the TSIO520D engine and have had a problem similar to yours. First I will assume you or your mechanic has followed all the good advice given in these posts-ie,insuring you do not have a turbo or exhaust problem. You mention having this problem before and after a new engine was installed. I do not know what components or parts may have been tranfeerred from one installation to the other but here is what I found in troubleshooting my own problem after exhaustive checks:

Insure that the turbo controller manifold sense lines are not leaking. They can be found tight but with a leaking flare fitting so a good "snoop" check is required. I found the small U shaped line going from the top of the controller to the bottom of the controller requiring replacement (senses upper deck to turbo output pressure). Remember to check the manifold sense pressure lines to the fuel pump and injectors for leaking and lowering manifold pressure. Last I found the intake manifold fuel drain elbow fitting with the incorrect p/n installed. On the TSIO520D it takes p/n MS20822-2D and I suspect it should be used on the TSIO520UB but do not know for sure. Check you parts manual. The -2D has an orifice hole of approx 1/16". If a elbow was installed with no restriction, it will compromise critical altitude. If you hook up a cylinder compression differential tester to the drain line with 80 psi in you should get approx 35/80 with a -2D fitting installed. I had 5/80. If you do the test and think you have the incorrect fitting installed you can place a bolt with a 1/16" hole drilled thru the center in the drain hose and fasten with a hose clamp as a temporary troubleshooting test to see if it is affecting critical altitude. Getting at the elbow fitting is difficult, at least on my engine. Small leaks show up big time at higher altitude with reduced outside pressure.

Sorry to be so wordy

John

Ryland Davis

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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2011, 03:53:13 AM »
Tom Turner, I see your comment about a BPPA in Spokane in June but the latest calendar does not show one. I would certainly like one here. This year's schedule seems light on western locations. Skip Davis N101PA, A36TC.

M Pilling

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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 12:46:45 PM »
Tom Turner:

Thanks for the suggestion Re: Spokane.  Unfortunately I can't make it so still interested in what other A36TC owners find works best for cruise settings, hot start, etc.

Thanks

Mark Pilling

Edmonton, AB

Richard Driver

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TC Climb Power Settings & Performance
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2011, 10:35:36 AM »
Tom

Having flown '81 A36TC for 24 yrs, I've found the followings works for me (200 hrs frm TBO; no oil use, no cyl off, good analysis);

TO @ 36/2700 @35-36 GPH TIT@ 14-1450

CRUISE CLIMB 34/25 W/FF @30 GPH @ 130 IAS

CRUISE 28/23 @ 18GPH; TIT BELOW 1500;TRUE @185 @ 12-13000'

HOT START; FULL THROTTLE/MIXTURE IDLE CUTTOFF; HIGH FUEL PUMP 10-15 SEC

THEN NORMAL START PROCEDURE - LEAN AS NECESSARY AFTER CATCHES

HOPE THIS HELPS. GREAT MACHINE!

RICK DRIVER

PHOENIX, AZ

Nick DeMarco

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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2011, 08:26:16 PM »
Power settings here are 30", 2350rpm, 19.5 gph, 100 deg rop, 350 deg cht, 180 ktas at 11,000, gross weight.

I am now running lop as per another post here. Power is 34", 2320-2350, 350 cht, 175 ktas, 11,000, gross 15.5 gph.

It took a lot of work, though.

Nick


Ron Schmidt

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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2011, 04:17:13 AM »
Problem Solved! After a thorough inspection of the induction and exhaust system no leaks were found. I contacted Gary Main of Main Turbo in Visalia, CA who had overhauled my controller in June of 2000 and replaced it under warranty in August of 2000. My engine was overhauled by Barrett Precision Engines of Tulsa, Oklahoma in June of 2004 and I choose not to have the controller overhauled because it had been in service for less than 500 hours, probably a bad decision?

After disconnecting the oil supply and return lines to the controller Gary recommended back flushing them with regulated air pressure checking for possible restrictions of oil flow to the Controller. One line has a restricting orifice that can get plugged. No restrictions noted I removed the Controller and sent it into Gary for a bench check. Being out of spec and in need we overhauled and reinstalled with everything working properly now.

Moral of this story is that if your airplane is not performing the way it should then something is wrong! Ia

Ron Lessley

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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2011, 05:44:59 AM »
Has anyone ever changed the turbo heat shield on a B36TC themselves?  What parts have to be removed to able to remove broken shield?